The first paragraph was absolutely the most beautiful writing I've read in a long time - the rhythm made me savor it and even read it out loud to myself once. My only concern is that so far, Olive Kitteridge herself seems pretty rude; she's straight-forward to a fault, and seems bossy, controlling, hot-tempered, and inhospitable.
I agree, the author has almost a delicate way of writing that is woven so beautifully together that seems to flow off the page. But, I cannot enjoy a book whose titular character is rude and overly blunt. Its almost jarring to see such beautiful writing followed by such rude dialogue. But there is two sides to every story and we will find out soon enough why Olive is the way she is.
I stopped at page 31 because that was the end of the first story. So far there's a definite Maine-y, rustic, winter and flannel and gray skies feel to the book, though I think that might be unique to this particular story. What we read was about Henry Kitteridge, Olive's husband, and his relationship with one of his employees (Denise) and her life. The writing was sad, about limited and unpermitted relationships, the nagging idea that something could be better if it changed when change seems impossible, death of husbands and parents and childhood, and an overall feeling of depression and helplessness. Olive was still pretty rude but somehow separate from the rest of the characters, so I feel like there's a lot about her that we don't know, and that I'm interested to learn.
I read a little bit into the second story. And I began to realize that the novel is revealing bits and pieces of Olive Kitteridge without actually focusing on Olive. And maybe Stout (the author) is telling us-- the reader, that ones personality consists of everyone else's perspective. And that we are nothing more than woven pieces of people's opinions of us. It seems that Olive Kitteridge is her own sole microcosm and to understand her we need to focus on a bigger macrocosm.
I completely agree with Rachel, that we're getting to know Olive through what we see of her through other people's eyes. However, in one of the three stories I read this week (A Little Burst), we finally get into Olive's head. This is the story about Olive being at her son's wedding, and for most of it she's lying on the bed of her son and new daughter-in-law, reflecting on his past and hers, and thinking about the marriage and how it could effect everyone. We also learn little bits and pieces of Olive's life - like her battle with depression, weight gain, and a recent heart attack - that are helping me warm up to her.
Through the two other stories I read - Incoming Tide and The Piano Player - we also see Olive as more than just a big, blunt woman. We find that she was a math teacher for young kids, and that she and Henry still go on dates, and that she knows everything about everyone in her town and guards the information carefully and has a knack for revealing it in the right ways at the right times. I loved learning more about Olive in these really implicit ways, and it's making me yearn for a story in which Olive herself (not just her personality) is presented implicitly.
Lastly, a side note: Incoming Tide was my favorite story so far. I loved how it showed Kevin and Patty, and Olive as a stable, calm, all-knowing force that these characters respected so much. Also, the last paragraph of it was stunningly beautiful - in a story about suicide, Strout had this accident happen (of Patty falling off the cliff) but turned it around in the most hopeful and touching of ways. I was left delighted, somehow knowing that everything would not only be okay, but that it would change these people's lives in a beautiful way.
By reading your comments and reflecting some more on the book, I'm beginning to think that not only is Stout trying weave together Olive through other people, but to show Olive as a bigger force- although infallible. Because Olive herself hasn't been the focal point of a story yet, its almost seems as if she's been presiding over them and we only catch fleeting mentions of her like in The Piano Player. I feel as if the novel is both a character study and ode to the force known as Olive Kitteridge.
In terms of writing, I agree that the language is beautiful but that Stout has a way of writing that makes reading feel so intimate. So much so that I have no problem referring to Olive by her first name. I feel like I know her- even if we don't know her whole story what we do know is very important and entirely intimate.
I was thinking that too - that in some ways, Olive is like the God figure of this book, the all-knowing, somehow majestic character. In almost every story she has somehow intervened into a situation - whether personal or with another person or people - and dealt with it in a way that could be considered godly. She didn't SOLVE the problem, but was helpful in a way that let it take its course and move towards it's own fate, which Olive seems to already know. For example, in this last story I read, about the anorexic girl, Olive cries when she first meets her. Thinking about it now, I feel like that wasn't just because of how scary and sad she looked, but because maybe Olive knew the situation wouldn't end well. She helped anyway.
Exactly, that's the impression I got when I read the story about the anorexic. Like the Christian God, Olive helps regardless of the situtation whether its going to end good or bad. Its in her nature to help, but its also in her nature to be crass and slightly unlikeable. But I think a real character isnt 100% one way or another. Similar to Gatsby everyone has there likeable traits and dislikeable traits. If Olive was an angel all the time she would be so hard to relate to. She is a more rounded character by having all these human quirks.
On another note, its really interesting to see the stories Staut decided to write. I mean each is different and nice to read something were we don't keep seeing the same characters incessantly like in a more typical story or novel. Also Staut is sucha good author that regardless of no overly huge connection of the characters, it never feels disjointed.
It's interesting what you said about the cohesiveness of the the book with respect to the stories, because the last 3 I read proved your point perfectly; the first stories did actually seem a little disjointed to me, but the last three had aspects that tied them all together beautifully. To review (because all the stories get mixed up for me), "A Different Road" was about Henry and Olive being held hostage in the hospital bathroom, "Winter Concert" was about the elderly couple appreciating their marriage despite an affair that the husband had four years earlier, and "Tulips" was about both the rumors about the Larkins and Henry's stroke. The overreaching themes in these stories were, respectively, fear and reactions in dire situations, fidelity and true love, and parent-child relationships as well as losing ones you love. These themes have been prevalent in the other stories. Relationships are explored in depth - kind, loyal Henry has an affair, the anorexic girl and her boyfriend are models of the joy and pain of adolescence, and a brief affair challenges a couple that has been together for longer than they have been alone. Parent-child, and especially mother-child, connections show a lot about the characters - we see the motherly, overbearing, overly caring side of Olive through how she treats Christopher and how emotional his every move (marriage, move to the West coast) makes her, which contrasts her general distaste for others. We also meet Patty Larkin through her reaction to her son having apparently stabbed his wife or girlfriend 29 times - Patty blames the girl, not her son. Also, some of the stories are connected by the idea of things lost; Olive loses Christopher, and then Henry, Ms. Larking loses her reputation and her sanity, even the young kid with the gun who hold the Kitteridges hostage in the bathroom loses his innocence when forced into the role of the dangerous, aggressive bad guy.
As disjointed as these stories seemed in the beginning, they're all being tied together by core messages and ideas. This makes me think that these are the things Strout deems important, and she chooses to write in separate stories to prove how applicable to so many parts of life these messages - fidelity, loss, love, innocence - really are.
Also, I just wanted to to recognize that 1) no, we haven't been citing direct quotes from the stories, but that 2) I feel like there has, so far, been good reason for this. Because this novel is written in stories - cohesive because they're all set in the same place, but all decidedly very unique - it has been somewhat overwhelming to read. Every time we get reintroduced to the same town because of the viewpoint we're seeing it through. This is not a book that you can just settle in to; every story is a new book, and though it seems vaguely familiar because of the setting, the characters are mostly new and the experiences are all new, and we never know what to expect, in any way. Because of this, it has been more important (for me, at least) to connect the stories before deeply analyzing each one (because that would be like analyzing multiple books, which is, again, overwhelming). I've been getting my thoughts straight by talking about overreaching themes and messages, which has involved more paraphrasing than quoting (it's useless to say " when she saw the girl, 'Olive cried' (pg #)" just to work in quote - "Olive cried when she saw the girl" seems better). I just want to say that I think this has been exactly the right strategy so far. Only now have the stories begun to tie together, and now that this is happening, yes, I think quoting individual stories will be useful in analyzing them. However, I think paraphrasing was the right way to go before because it was more crucial to our understanding to compare the stories generally - separating them by different quotes from each one would have made them even less cohesive than they seemed before.
Ok, this is my last post. Sorry, but these last 3 stories gave me so much to say! They were outstanding from the others because each of them had very clear examples of a new side of Olive - the vulnerable, softer, more hopeless side. Until now, we have known Olive as bold, strong, and even, as Rachel said, "crass and unlikeable". However, when Olive is held hostage in the hospital bathroom, everything changes. It seems normal that someone would be scared when this happens, but Olive's reaction seems almost TOO normal for how we know she is. In the bathroom, "her legs were shaking so hard, they actually made a little slapping sound against the floor" (114). This is an uncharacteristic showing of fear - or emotion in general - from Olive. Furthermore, when visiting Henry in the hospital after his stroke, she breaks down and snaps to the staring Mary Blackwell, "Haven't you ever seen an old lady cry before?" (148). Never before have we seen Olive with these outright displays of emotion - she's shaking in fear, she cries, and she even acknowledges her age - before she said that, I didn't picture her as an old woman at all. My questions are, why did Strout decide to show this side of Olive now, and why all at once? Maybe she's trying to say that despite a strong facade, losing loved ones will ruin everyone...?
Again, sorry for all these posts. I just had a lot to say. Also, we'll be needing extra credit because of our lack of quoting, despite good reason for it.
Oh Elaine, now where do I start? At first I didn't knpw what you were talking about incorporating quotes until I was told late last night that it was a requirement. I feel like the quotes might stunt the flow of our conversation, but if we need them we need. Now to the book, I feel like there isn't a lot I can add without sounding too repetitive. I feel like the stories although individual can be summarized in emotional chunks. The first being Olive as unlikeable and haughty, the second being Olive sad and notalgic and the third being fear and grief. Now I believe that not only is Olive getting revealed through these characters but also through the central emotional theme present. Olive has many sides and the every couple of stories, a new side is shown. I'm excited to see what emotion or feeling will be shown next. Maybe triumph and resilience after Henry's stroke? Or something even the least bit more positive.
To answer your question in your final post, I do believe the most interesting ways to get to know a person is when they grieve. In the state, I feel as if that state shows ones truest most raw emotions. So for all of Olive's crass bravado, she really is just another human being who isn't afraid to hurt or to feel.
Well said about the truth that comes out during grieving periods - that was shown explicitly in "Basket of Trips". There were a lot of interesting parts of this story, and while I was going to talk about learning more about Olive through the contrast between how she's dealing with grief and how Kerry does, one quote caught my eye. When Marlene suddenly admits to Olive that she has thought about killing Kerry, Olive handles the situation well but then suggests using a pillow to stem the flow of blood from a slit throat. Not only was this a shockingly morbid thing to say, Olive goes on to tell Marlene, "I've had some time to think about pillows" (177). My first reaction was: HAS OLIVE WANTED TO KILL HENRY?? but when the initial surprise passed, I realized this is just so Olive. I like that we've gotten to know her well enough to say that, and I'd say the most defining characteristic of Olive as I know her is how extraordinarily stable and steady she is. She seems immovable and reliable, so for her to calmly say that she's thought about "pillows" doesn't mean she has thought about killing Henry; it seems more along the lines of "I've thought a lot, about everything, and every side of a story and worldview, and this thinking has settled into me and helps keep me grounded and steady". Olive has, for all her "crass bravado" at the beginning of the book, turned into an extremely trustworthy and even motherly central character. I think this is Strout's way of proving to us the intricacies of human nature, and encouraging reserving judgment until you really get to know someone. Furthermore, she seems to be saying that "getting to know someone" means really seeing them though thick and thin. I agree with her, because as you said about the grieving, rare or difficult situations bring out extremely important sides of people.
I think the different aspects of humanity do really shine in this book. Like we have both said many times before, Olive seems to represent different facets of human beings. Throughout the book I have always felt that even for the time Olive has cried or shown some sort of vulnerability she still has a prideful strength about her. So I began to believe that an underlying theme is strength and resilience that is in people. But, as seen on 163 when Olive is talking to Mrs. Larkin and she basically says that Olive only came to Mrs. Larkin to feel better about her own situation, was the first time that I feel that Olive was being weak. She didnt, to me seem so weak that she would use other people appease her pain. It just seems so horrible to use people in such a way. But it also shows how weak Olive has become. Also, in the stories about the anoerix girl and Henry I became really aware of people's mortality. To me it seems as if everyone is just slowly dying off and as teenagers subconsciously think that we are going to live forever. As I reading I became uncomfortable knowing that it all could just end-- like the characters in the novel.
Now that you point it out, I actually realize that almost every story here is about something ending - sometimes it's lives, yes, but mostly it's chapters of lives. The last two stories I read - "Ship in a Bottle" and "Security" were no exception. In "Ship in a Bottle", what ended was Julie's marriage, and more implicitly it was Winnie's naive perception of a functional family. At the beginning, Winnie has normal adoration for her sister - her "adolescent feelings. . .amounted these days to almost a crush" (181). Things seems regular until we learn that when bad things happen, Uncle Kyle "shows up with pills" (188) to drug upset people into sleep, and Julie tells Winnie to "always lie to mom" (190), and their mom eventually tries to shoot Julie's apologetic ex-fiance with a rifle. Winnie's innocence evaporates and we realize with her the intricacies of her crazy and complicated family. In "Security", all of Olive's old notions about her perfect, happy, angelic son disappear as well. When she goes to visit him and his new wife in New York, she quickly comes to realize the Chris isn't who and how she thought he was. After the confrontation from 227-231, Olive seems to have lost hope, as well as some of the pride she once had. She's weak here too, crying hysterically while Christopher speaks calmly. Loss is definitely a theme here, though I think its connotation is more positive than negative. I think Strout is saying that everyone loses things, but life goes on afterwards. Maybe she chose once central character (Olive) to shows just how much loss happens all around every single person all the time, and how they can still be strong and prideful but have to change and adapt, or else end up as shocked as Olive when things don't turn out as planned.
Warning: this post might be long because it's my end of book post! I just finished the last two stories, and I had a lot to say about them but then I read the interview at the end of the book and was BLOWN AWAY! We were right!! It's so rare that there's an interview with the author (and the real life main character of the book...), so I took advantage of it to see what Strout was really thinking (even though it felt a little like cheating) and we guessed right a lot! Strout definitely emphasized how Olive represents multiple sides of everyone, and how her story is a lot about the opportunity and limitations of humanity. I also loved (and was completely befuddled by) the fact that Olive really exists, and almost exactly as Strout wrote her. Everything we said about her - how she's stable and stubborn and secretly kind and thoughtful - was said to her in the interview, and she accepted all of it. I'm also really happy that Olive admits to herself what I was thinking through the closing of this book (and especially the last story); that she has to change and adapt and accept change and adaptations in order to be happy and to be "given. . .a place in the world" (269). She admits her vulnerable sides, that the reason Jack made her so happy was because, despite all her criticism of him, he had needed her. Reading the interview was a surreal ending to a surreal book. It was written so well that any one I know could have been one of those characters, and everything that happened seemed familiar. I felt like I lived in Crosby, Maine, and was witnessing all these unlikely, and tested, and new relationships for myself. "Meeting" Olive just added to that strange feeling, that while reading I was more in their world than in my own.
Really quickly I also want to talk about the second to last story, "Criminal", because I felt like out of all of them, it was the most detached. It confused me, actually, but after reading it I realized who Rebecca was most like: Christopher. Could it be that since all the other stories had so many parallel and reflected characters, this one showed (through someone else, of course) how Christopher felt growing up with Olive? Repressed and silently criticized, like Rebecca? That was the only connection I drew from that - was it as weird to you as it was to me?
Overall, I really liked this book. I wish I could have read it at my own pace and really felt it and gotten deeper into it instead of knowing that I had to write a specific and satisfactory piece about it every time I finished part of it. That made it less enjoyable, but since I liked it despite that, I know now that if I pick it up in a few years I'll really love it!
Warning: this post might be long because it's my end of book post! I just finished the last two stories, and I had a lot to say about them but then I read the interview at the end of the book and was BLOWN AWAY! We were right!! It's so rare that there's an interview with the author (and the real life main character of the book...), so I took advantage of it to see what Strout was really thinking (even though it felt a little like cheating) and we guessed right a lot! Strout definitely emphasized how Olive represents multiple sides of everyone, and how her story is a lot about the opportunity and limitations of humanity. I also loved (and was completely befuddled by) the fact that Olive really exists, and almost exactly as Strout wrote her. Everything we said about her - how she's stable and stubborn and secretly kind and thoughtful - was said to her in the interview, and she accepted all of it. I'm also really happy that Olive admits to herself what I was thinking through the closing of this book (and especially the last story); that she has to change and adapt and accept change and adaptations in order to be happy and to be "given. . .a place in the world" (269). She admits her vulnerable sides, that the reason Jack made her so happy was because, despite all her criticism of him, he had needed her. Reading the interview was a surreal ending to a surreal book. It was written so well that any one I know could have been one of those characters, and everything that happened seemed familiar. I felt like I lived in Crosby, Maine, and was witnessing all these unlikely, and tested, and new relationships for myself. "Meeting" Olive just added to that strange feeling, that while reading I was more in their world than in my own.
Really quickly I also want to talk about the second to last story, "Criminal", because I felt like out of all of them, it was the most detached. It confused me, actually, but after reading it I realized who Rebecca was most like: Christopher. Could it be that since all the other stories had so many parallel and reflected characters, this one showed (through someone else, of course) how Christopher felt growing up with Olive? Repressed and silently criticized, like Rebecca? That was the only connection I drew from that - was it as weird to you as it was to me?
Overall, I really liked this book. I wish I could have read it at my own pace and really felt it and gotten deeper into it instead of knowing that I had to write a specific and satisfactory piece about it every time I finished part of it. That made it less enjoyable, but since I liked it despite that, I know now that if I pick it up in a few years I'll really love it!
I guess should start by saying that Olive Kitteridge is a book of life. It didn't have an underlying plot other than a woman's life and those whom are a part of it. And that's what makes Olive Kitteridge such a beautiful book. Its hard to find a novel that simply focuses on the facts of life.
Now on to answering your responses, In "Ship in a Bottle" right at the beginning when Anita tells Julie to "organize [her] days(184)" I automatically began to think of the importance of routines and how through this book even with disjointed stories-- there is a certain routine or flow to the novel. I than realized that the stories not only reveal characteristics about the the characters but also it reveals certain idiosyncrasies about the novel itself.
"Security" was very hard for me to read just because of the roughness of the content. We see Olive watching her pride and joy (her son) in a situation she doesn't really like. I was humiliated for her when she had ice cream on her blouse and she was left feeling as pathetic as her aunt Ora (236). I do agree with you that lose of something is constantly surrounding us and leaving us weak which gives us the chance to triumph.
I most certainly agree with you that the book is surreal. I think because of Strout's writing the book is dream-like. Im really happy there is a real Olive out there-- the thing with novels that have such good characters is the realization that the characters aren't real. Sometimes characters are so great that its such a let down when we realize they are nothing more than ideas transcribed to paper.
There is a certain raw and grittiness to the novel. That I realized from your summary of the interview is the stark limitations of humanity. All the characters are so human and so relatable. And that is where the discomfort for me, a reader has set in. For example, in the stories where Olive is in grief over Henry's stroke or when Nina White is dying from anorexia, I realized, like Olive, that I assumed a happy ending. When Nina died, there was no life lesson to be learned or somehow a happy ending, expected her to get her life in order. Like Olive, I, "[that] they don't all die." I like to believe that people are infallible and that they always get through things. This book really served as a reality check because I realized that human beings resilience isn't always present.
Its very hard for me to pick one story above the others that I like. But I do agree with you about Criminal being the most disjointed. I do see similarities between Rebecca and Chis but personally they aren't concrete enough. What Strout might be doing is using Rebecca as indirect way of looking into Chris mind, seeing as how other than a monologue, we don't know a lot about Chris other than from his mother perspective.
"Ship in a Bottle", also was a good story and I particularly liked how Winnie 's older sister Julie, ran away with her ex-fiance, for I took it as a sign as rebellion against her parents, yet in hindsight this was probably a bad idea because the fiance definitely seemed the type who was unable to commit.
I don't think I can go back and read Olive Kitteridge. It's like reading The Road or watching Schindler's List, somethings need to be only visited once and I don't think I have it in me to reread such a novel that really was emotional for me. The novel is HEAVY with feelings and although slow at some points, always has emotional weight to it.
Last Post: We have talked a lot about Olive Kitteridge and now I am going to try and offer a brief summary. The story of Olive Kitteridge is the story of the human spirit through its trials and tribulations, through its different ever changing perspectives, and of its lost. Olive Kitteridge is a novel about a woman and all those around her that have either lost something essential or never gained it. Its about families and what that means and how people treasure them and destroy them. Its about dying or watching people around you die and trying to garner the strength to deal with it or continuing to grieve until you yourself die. Olive Kitteridge is a story about humanity sometimes at its worse and sometimes at its best.
Neighbors, You have read with great compassion, and listened and responded to each other with the same open hearts and minds. Your analysis throughout is strong, and I especially like how your ideas build on one another to generate new thought. The whole is even stronger than the sum of the parts... as with Olive's town, and the aspects of her personality. Here's to little bursts!
The first paragraph was absolutely the most beautiful writing I've read in a long time - the rhythm made me savor it and even read it out loud to myself once. My only concern is that so far, Olive Kitteridge herself seems pretty rude; she's straight-forward to a fault, and seems bossy, controlling, hot-tempered, and inhospitable.
ReplyDeleteI agree, the author has almost a delicate way of writing that is woven so beautifully together that seems to flow off the page. But, I cannot enjoy a book whose titular character is rude and overly blunt. Its almost jarring to see such beautiful writing followed by such rude dialogue. But there is two sides to every story and we will find out soon enough why Olive is the way she is.
ReplyDeleteI stopped at page 31 because that was the end of the first story. So far there's a definite Maine-y, rustic, winter and flannel and gray skies feel to the book, though I think that might be unique to this particular story. What we read was about Henry Kitteridge, Olive's husband, and his relationship with one of his employees (Denise) and her life. The writing was sad, about limited and unpermitted relationships, the nagging idea that something could be better if it changed when change seems impossible, death of husbands and parents and childhood, and an overall feeling of depression and helplessness. Olive was still pretty rude but somehow separate from the rest of the characters, so I feel like there's a lot about her that we don't know, and that I'm interested to learn.
ReplyDeleteI read a little bit into the second story. And I began to realize that the novel is revealing bits and pieces of Olive Kitteridge without actually focusing on Olive. And maybe Stout (the author) is telling us-- the reader, that ones personality consists of everyone else's perspective. And that we are nothing more than woven pieces of people's opinions of us. It seems that Olive Kitteridge is her own sole microcosm and to understand her we need to focus on a bigger macrocosm.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Rachel, that we're getting to know Olive through what we see of her through other people's eyes. However, in one of the three stories I read this week (A Little Burst), we finally get into Olive's head. This is the story about Olive being at her son's wedding, and for most of it she's lying on the bed of her son and new daughter-in-law, reflecting on his past and hers, and thinking about the marriage and how it could effect everyone. We also learn little bits and pieces of Olive's life - like her battle with depression, weight gain, and a recent heart attack - that are helping me warm up to her.
ReplyDeleteThrough the two other stories I read - Incoming Tide and The Piano Player - we also see Olive as more than just a big, blunt woman. We find that she was a math teacher for young kids, and that she and Henry still go on dates, and that she knows everything about everyone in her town and guards the information carefully and has a knack for revealing it in the right ways at the right times. I loved learning more about Olive in these really implicit ways, and it's making me yearn for a story in which Olive herself (not just her personality) is presented implicitly.
Lastly, a side note: Incoming Tide was my favorite story so far. I loved how it showed Kevin and Patty, and Olive as a stable, calm, all-knowing force that these characters respected so much. Also, the last paragraph of it was stunningly beautiful - in a story about suicide, Strout had this accident happen (of Patty falling off the cliff) but turned it around in the most hopeful and touching of ways. I was left delighted, somehow knowing that everything would not only be okay, but that it would change these people's lives in a beautiful way.
By reading your comments and reflecting some more on the book, I'm beginning to think that not only is Stout trying weave together Olive through other people, but to show Olive as a bigger force- although infallible. Because Olive herself hasn't been the focal point of a story yet, its almost seems as if she's been presiding over them and we only catch fleeting mentions of her like in The Piano Player. I feel as if the novel is both a character study and ode to the force known as Olive Kitteridge.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of writing, I agree that the language is beautiful but that Stout has a way of writing that makes reading feel so intimate. So much so that I have no problem referring to Olive by her first name. I feel like I know her- even if we don't know her whole story what we do know is very important and entirely intimate.
I was thinking that too - that in some ways, Olive is like the God figure of this book, the all-knowing, somehow majestic character. In almost every story she has somehow intervened into a situation - whether personal or with another person or people - and dealt with it in a way that could be considered godly. She didn't SOLVE the problem, but was helpful in a way that let it take its course and move towards it's own fate, which Olive seems to already know. For example, in this last story I read, about the anorexic girl, Olive cries when she first meets her. Thinking about it now, I feel like that wasn't just because of how scary and sad she looked, but because maybe Olive knew the situation wouldn't end well. She helped anyway.
ReplyDeleteExactly, that's the impression I got when I read the story about the anorexic. Like the Christian God, Olive helps regardless of the situtation whether its going to end good or bad. Its in her nature to help, but its also in her nature to be crass and slightly unlikeable. But I think a real character isnt 100% one way or another. Similar to Gatsby everyone has there likeable traits and dislikeable traits. If Olive was an angel all the time she would be so hard to relate to. She is a more rounded character by having all these human quirks.
ReplyDeleteOn another note, its really interesting to see the stories Staut decided to write. I mean each is different and nice to read something were we don't keep seeing the same characters incessantly like in a more typical story or novel. Also Staut is sucha good author that regardless of no overly huge connection of the characters, it never feels disjointed.
It's interesting what you said about the cohesiveness of the the book with respect to the stories, because the last 3 I read proved your point perfectly; the first stories did actually seem a little disjointed to me, but the last three had aspects that tied them all together beautifully. To review (because all the stories get mixed up for me), "A Different Road" was about Henry and Olive being held hostage in the hospital bathroom, "Winter Concert" was about the elderly couple appreciating their marriage despite an affair that the husband had four years earlier, and "Tulips" was about both the rumors about the Larkins and Henry's stroke. The overreaching themes in these stories were, respectively, fear and reactions in dire situations, fidelity and true love, and parent-child relationships as well as losing ones you love. These themes have been prevalent in the other stories. Relationships are explored in depth - kind, loyal Henry has an affair, the anorexic girl and her boyfriend are models of the joy and pain of adolescence, and a brief affair challenges a couple that has been together for longer than they have been alone. Parent-child, and especially mother-child, connections show a lot about the characters - we see the motherly, overbearing, overly caring side of Olive through how she treats Christopher and how emotional his every move (marriage, move to the West coast) makes her, which contrasts her general distaste for others. We also meet Patty Larkin through her reaction to her son having apparently stabbed his wife or girlfriend 29 times - Patty blames the girl, not her son. Also, some of the stories are connected by the idea of things lost; Olive loses Christopher, and then Henry, Ms. Larking loses her reputation and her sanity, even the young kid with the gun who hold the Kitteridges hostage in the bathroom loses his innocence when forced into the role of the dangerous, aggressive bad guy.
ReplyDeleteAs disjointed as these stories seemed in the beginning, they're all being tied together by core messages and ideas. This makes me think that these are the things Strout deems important, and she chooses to write in separate stories to prove how applicable to so many parts of life these messages - fidelity, loss, love, innocence - really are.
Also, I just wanted to to recognize that 1) no, we haven't been citing direct quotes from the stories, but that 2) I feel like there has, so far, been good reason for this. Because this novel is written in stories - cohesive because they're all set in the same place, but all decidedly very unique - it has been somewhat overwhelming to read. Every time we get reintroduced to the same town because of the viewpoint we're seeing it through. This is not a book that you can just settle in to; every story is a new book, and though it seems vaguely familiar because of the setting, the characters are mostly new and the experiences are all new, and we never know what to expect, in any way. Because of this, it has been more important (for me, at least) to connect the stories before deeply analyzing each one (because that would be like analyzing multiple books, which is, again, overwhelming). I've been getting my thoughts straight by talking about overreaching themes and messages, which has involved more paraphrasing than quoting (it's useless to say " when she saw the girl, 'Olive cried' (pg #)" just to work in quote - "Olive cried when she saw the girl" seems better). I just want to say that I think this has been exactly the right strategy so far. Only now have the stories begun to tie together, and now that this is happening, yes, I think quoting individual stories will be useful in analyzing them. However, I think paraphrasing was the right way to go before because it was more crucial to our understanding to compare the stories generally - separating them by different quotes from each one would have made them even less cohesive than they seemed before.
ReplyDeleteOk, this is my last post. Sorry, but these last 3 stories gave me so much to say! They were outstanding from the others because each of them had very clear examples of a new side of Olive - the vulnerable, softer, more hopeless side. Until now, we have known Olive as bold, strong, and even, as Rachel said, "crass and unlikeable". However, when Olive is held hostage in the hospital bathroom, everything changes. It seems normal that someone would be scared when this happens, but Olive's reaction seems almost TOO normal for how we know she is. In the bathroom, "her legs were shaking so hard, they actually made a little slapping sound against the floor" (114). This is an uncharacteristic showing of fear - or emotion in general - from Olive. Furthermore, when visiting Henry in the hospital after his stroke, she breaks down and snaps to the staring Mary Blackwell, "Haven't you ever seen an old lady cry before?" (148). Never before have we seen Olive with these outright displays of emotion - she's shaking in fear, she cries, and she even acknowledges her age - before she said that, I didn't picture her as an old woman at all. My questions are, why did Strout decide to show this side of Olive now, and why all at once? Maybe she's trying to say that despite a strong facade, losing loved ones will ruin everyone...?
ReplyDeleteAgain, sorry for all these posts. I just had a lot to say. Also, we'll be needing extra credit because of our lack of quoting, despite good reason for it.
Oh Elaine, now where do I start? At first I didn't knpw what you were talking about incorporating quotes until I was told late last night that it was a requirement. I feel like the quotes might stunt the flow of our conversation, but if we need them we need. Now to the book, I feel like there isn't a lot I can add without sounding too repetitive. I feel like the stories although individual can be summarized in emotional chunks. The first being Olive as unlikeable and haughty, the second being Olive sad and notalgic and the third being fear and grief. Now I believe that not only is Olive getting revealed through these characters but also through the central emotional theme present. Olive has many sides and the every couple of stories, a new side is shown. I'm excited to see what emotion or feeling will be shown next. Maybe triumph and resilience after Henry's stroke? Or something even the least bit more positive.
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question in your final post, I do believe the most interesting ways to get to know a person is when they grieve. In the state, I feel as if that state shows ones truest most raw emotions. So for all of Olive's crass bravado, she really is just another human being who isn't afraid to hurt or to feel.
Well said about the truth that comes out during grieving periods - that was shown explicitly in "Basket of Trips". There were a lot of interesting parts of this story, and while I was going to talk about learning more about Olive through the contrast between how she's dealing with grief and how Kerry does, one quote caught my eye. When Marlene suddenly admits to Olive that she has thought about killing Kerry, Olive handles the situation well but then suggests using a pillow to stem the flow of blood from a slit throat. Not only was this a shockingly morbid thing to say, Olive goes on to tell Marlene, "I've had some time to think about pillows" (177). My first reaction was: HAS OLIVE WANTED TO KILL HENRY?? but when the initial surprise passed, I realized this is just so Olive. I like that we've gotten to know her well enough to say that, and I'd say the most defining characteristic of Olive as I know her is how extraordinarily stable and steady she is. She seems immovable and reliable, so for her to calmly say that she's thought about "pillows" doesn't mean she has thought about killing Henry; it seems more along the lines of "I've thought a lot, about everything, and every side of a story and worldview, and this thinking has settled into me and helps keep me grounded and steady". Olive has, for all her "crass bravado" at the beginning of the book, turned into an extremely trustworthy and even motherly central character. I think this is Strout's way of proving to us the intricacies of human nature, and encouraging reserving judgment until you really get to know someone. Furthermore, she seems to be saying that "getting to know someone" means really seeing them though thick and thin. I agree with her, because as you said about the grieving, rare or difficult situations bring out extremely important sides of people.
ReplyDeleteI think the different aspects of humanity do really shine in this book. Like we have both said many times before, Olive seems to represent different facets of human beings. Throughout the book I have always felt that even for the time Olive has cried or shown some sort of vulnerability she still has a prideful strength about her. So I began to believe that an underlying theme is strength and resilience that is in people. But, as seen on 163 when Olive is talking to Mrs. Larkin and she basically says that Olive only came to Mrs. Larkin to feel better about her own situation, was the first time that I feel that Olive was being weak. She didnt, to me seem so weak that she would use other people appease her pain. It just seems so horrible to use people in such a way. But it also shows how weak Olive has become. Also, in the stories about the anoerix girl and Henry I became really aware of people's mortality. To me it seems as if everyone is just slowly dying off and as teenagers subconsciously think that we are going to live forever. As I reading I became uncomfortable knowing that it all could just end-- like the characters in the novel.
ReplyDeleteNow that you point it out, I actually realize that almost every story here is about something ending - sometimes it's lives, yes, but mostly it's chapters of lives. The last two stories I read - "Ship in a Bottle" and "Security" were no exception. In "Ship in a Bottle", what ended was Julie's marriage, and more implicitly it was Winnie's naive perception of a functional family. At the beginning, Winnie has normal adoration for her sister - her "adolescent feelings. . .amounted these days to almost a crush" (181). Things seems regular until we learn that when bad things happen, Uncle Kyle "shows up with pills" (188) to drug upset people into sleep, and Julie tells Winnie to "always lie to mom" (190), and their mom eventually tries to shoot Julie's apologetic ex-fiance with a rifle. Winnie's innocence evaporates and we realize with her the intricacies of her crazy and complicated family. In "Security", all of Olive's old notions about her perfect, happy, angelic son disappear as well. When she goes to visit him and his new wife in New York, she quickly comes to realize the Chris isn't who and how she thought he was. After the confrontation from 227-231, Olive seems to have lost hope, as well as some of the pride she once had. She's weak here too, crying hysterically while Christopher speaks calmly. Loss is definitely a theme here, though I think its connotation is more positive than negative. I think Strout is saying that everyone loses things, but life goes on afterwards. Maybe she chose once central character (Olive) to shows just how much loss happens all around every single person all the time, and how they can still be strong and prideful but have to change and adapt, or else end up as shocked as Olive when things don't turn out as planned.
ReplyDeleteWarning: this post might be long because it's my end of book post! I just finished the last two stories, and I had a lot to say about them but then I read the interview at the end of the book and was BLOWN AWAY! We were right!! It's so rare that there's an interview with the author (and the real life main character of the book...), so I took advantage of it to see what Strout was really thinking (even though it felt a little like cheating) and we guessed right a lot! Strout definitely emphasized how Olive represents multiple sides of everyone, and how her story is a lot about the opportunity and limitations of humanity. I also loved (and was completely befuddled by) the fact that Olive really exists, and almost exactly as Strout wrote her. Everything we said about her - how she's stable and stubborn and secretly kind and thoughtful - was said to her in the interview, and she accepted all of it. I'm also really happy that Olive admits to herself what I was thinking through the closing of this book (and especially the last story); that she has to change and adapt and accept change and adaptations in order to be happy and to be "given. . .a place in the world" (269). She admits her vulnerable sides, that the reason Jack made her so happy was because, despite all her criticism of him, he had needed her. Reading the interview was a surreal ending to a surreal book. It was written so well that any one I know could have been one of those characters, and everything that happened seemed familiar. I felt like I lived in Crosby, Maine, and was witnessing all these unlikely, and tested, and new relationships for myself. "Meeting" Olive just added to that strange feeling, that while reading I was more in their world than in my own.
ReplyDeleteReally quickly I also want to talk about the second to last story, "Criminal", because I felt like out of all of them, it was the most detached. It confused me, actually, but after reading it I realized who Rebecca was most like: Christopher. Could it be that since all the other stories had so many parallel and reflected characters, this one showed (through someone else, of course) how Christopher felt growing up with Olive? Repressed and silently criticized, like Rebecca? That was the only connection I drew from that - was it as weird to you as it was to me?
Overall, I really liked this book. I wish I could have read it at my own pace and really felt it and gotten deeper into it instead of knowing that I had to write a specific and satisfactory piece about it every time I finished part of it. That made it less enjoyable, but since I liked it despite that, I know now that if I pick it up in a few years I'll really love it!
Warning: this post might be long because it's my end of book post! I just finished the last two stories, and I had a lot to say about them but then I read the interview at the end of the book and was BLOWN AWAY! We were right!! It's so rare that there's an interview with the author (and the real life main character of the book...), so I took advantage of it to see what Strout was really thinking (even though it felt a little like cheating) and we guessed right a lot! Strout definitely emphasized how Olive represents multiple sides of everyone, and how her story is a lot about the opportunity and limitations of humanity. I also loved (and was completely befuddled by) the fact that Olive really exists, and almost exactly as Strout wrote her. Everything we said about her - how she's stable and stubborn and secretly kind and thoughtful - was said to her in the interview, and she accepted all of it. I'm also really happy that Olive admits to herself what I was thinking through the closing of this book (and especially the last story); that she has to change and adapt and accept change and adaptations in order to be happy and to be "given. . .a place in the world" (269). She admits her vulnerable sides, that the reason Jack made her so happy was because, despite all her criticism of him, he had needed her. Reading the interview was a surreal ending to a surreal book. It was written so well that any one I know could have been one of those characters, and everything that happened seemed familiar. I felt like I lived in Crosby, Maine, and was witnessing all these unlikely, and tested, and new relationships for myself. "Meeting" Olive just added to that strange feeling, that while reading I was more in their world than in my own.
ReplyDelete(to be continued below...)
Really quickly I also want to talk about the second to last story, "Criminal", because I felt like out of all of them, it was the most detached. It confused me, actually, but after reading it I realized who Rebecca was most like: Christopher. Could it be that since all the other stories had so many parallel and reflected characters, this one showed (through someone else, of course) how Christopher felt growing up with Olive? Repressed and silently criticized, like Rebecca? That was the only connection I drew from that - was it as weird to you as it was to me?
ReplyDeleteOverall, I really liked this book. I wish I could have read it at my own pace and really felt it and gotten deeper into it instead of knowing that I had to write a specific and satisfactory piece about it every time I finished part of it. That made it less enjoyable, but since I liked it despite that, I know now that if I pick it up in a few years I'll really love it!
I guess should start by saying that Olive Kitteridge is a book of life. It didn't have an underlying plot other than a woman's life and those whom are a part of it. And that's what makes Olive Kitteridge such a beautiful book. Its hard to find a novel that simply focuses on the facts of life.
ReplyDeleteNow on to answering your responses, In "Ship in a Bottle" right at the beginning when Anita tells Julie to "organize [her] days(184)" I automatically began to think of the importance of routines and how through this book even with disjointed stories-- there is a certain routine or flow to the novel. I than realized that the stories not only reveal characteristics about the the characters but also it reveals certain idiosyncrasies about the novel itself.
"Security" was very hard for me to read just because of the roughness of the content. We see Olive watching her pride and joy (her son) in a situation she doesn't really like. I was humiliated for her when she had ice cream on her blouse and she was left feeling as pathetic as her aunt Ora (236). I do agree with you that lose of something is constantly surrounding us and leaving us weak which gives us the chance to triumph.
I most certainly agree with you that the book is surreal. I think because of Strout's writing the book is dream-like. Im really happy there is a real Olive out there-- the thing with novels that have such good characters is the realization that the characters aren't real. Sometimes characters are so great that its such a let down when we realize they are nothing more than ideas transcribed to paper.
ReplyDeleteThere is a certain raw and grittiness to the novel. That I realized from your summary of the interview is the stark limitations of humanity. All the characters are so human and so relatable. And that is where the discomfort for me, a reader has set in. For example, in the stories where Olive is in grief over Henry's stroke or when Nina White is dying from anorexia, I realized, like Olive, that I assumed a happy ending. When Nina died, there was no life lesson to be learned or somehow a happy ending, expected her to get her life in order. Like Olive, I, "[that] they don't all die." I like to believe that people are infallible and that they always get through things. This book really served as a reality check because I realized that human beings resilience isn't always present.
Its very hard for me to pick one story above the others that I like. But I do agree with you about Criminal being the most disjointed. I do see similarities between Rebecca and Chis but personally they aren't concrete enough. What Strout might be doing is using Rebecca as indirect way of looking into Chris mind, seeing as how other than a monologue, we don't know a lot about Chris other than from his mother perspective.
ReplyDelete"Ship in a Bottle", also was a good story and I particularly liked how Winnie 's older sister Julie, ran away with her ex-fiance, for I took it as a sign as rebellion against her parents, yet in hindsight this was probably a bad idea because the fiance definitely seemed the type who was unable to commit.
I don't think I can go back and read Olive Kitteridge. It's like reading The Road or watching Schindler's List, somethings need to be only visited once and I don't think I have it in me to reread such a novel that really was emotional for me. The novel is HEAVY with feelings and although slow at some points, always has emotional weight to it.
Last Post: We have talked a lot about Olive Kitteridge and now I am going to try and offer a brief summary. The story of Olive Kitteridge is the story of the human spirit through its trials and tribulations, through its different ever changing perspectives, and of its lost. Olive Kitteridge is a novel about a woman and all those around her that have either lost something essential or never gained it. Its about families and what that means and how people treasure them and destroy them. Its about dying or watching people around you die and trying to garner the strength to deal with it or continuing to grieve until you yourself die. Olive Kitteridge is a story about humanity sometimes at its worse and sometimes at its best.
ReplyDeleteNeighbors,
ReplyDeleteYou have read with great compassion, and listened and responded to each other with the same open hearts and minds. Your analysis throughout is strong, and I especially like how your ideas build on one another to generate new thought. The whole is even stronger than the sum of the parts... as with Olive's town, and the aspects of her personality.
Here's to little bursts!