Wednesday, February 9, 2011

The Catcher in the Rye (& other short texts)

by J.D. Salinger

25 comments:

  1. This book starts off at a critical time in Holden’s life and puts the reader in the middle of the action. I like the way this book starts because it allows the reader to infer and think about the type of character that Holden is by reading about his situation. Also after reading the advice his teacher, Mr. Spencer gave him about working hard I think I can guess some of the message or themes that will come up, “I’d like to put some sense in that head of yours, boy”(14). Seems like Holden is going to learn some lessons about hard work and responsibilities. This could also explain why Ms. Jones said this was normally a freshman book. Lastly this round of our book circle seems like it will be more enjoyable.

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  2. Going along with our current in-class attention to paradoxes within stories, one aspect of the story so far that has stood out to me is the dual nature of Holden’s personality. Outwardly, he’s a cynical, whiny, strange kid who failed out of a prestigious private school. But, as we the readers know, he’s actually a quietly observant and almost sensitive boy. An adolescent with an outer personality and hidden, perhaps “true,” nature—it’s an archetype Carl Jung would love. Most anyone can relate to Holden in this way. I wonder, if this is a coming-of-age story, will he have to pick one side to devote himself to more than the other? I also agree with Anthony that (again in the vein of a coming-of-age story) it seems he still has a lot to learn.

    As for Salinger’s style, I like it. The sassy teenager voice has been done over and over since this book was published, but (I could be making this up) I think Salinger was the first to do it in this way. It almost reminds me of the narrator from The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time, which we read for summer reading before junior year, in the way Holden describes broad character traits (Ackley is annoying, Stradlater is narcissistic) and every little action (adjusting the hunting hat, Ackley squeezing pimples, etc) but pays little attention to anything in between.

    And also like Anthony, I’m looking forward to this round of book groups.

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  3. Hey everyone its marg
    I had no idea what this book was about, but from the first pages you get sucked in. What I really liked about this narrorator was that he is so casual."I forgot to tell you about that. They kicked me out. I wasn't supposed to come back after Christmas vacation, on account of I was flunking four subjects and not applying myself"(4)". Heldon's caracter is very nonchalant about everything, but I feel that is Salinger's technique to start to develop his character. The indifferenece of his character makes capturtes the essence of a teenager and our lives.

    Stratetically Salinger is already making some clamis,on page 8 he compares life to a game, then Heldon responds by saying, "SOme game. if you get on the side where all the hot-shots are, then its a game, all right-I'll admit that. But if you get on the other side, where there arean't any hot shots, then what's a game about"(8). WHen I read this I thought to myself that is a perfect analogy becuase life is like a game, and the even more messed up part is that Heldon is right you you have the right people on your side then life is great, but if you are just unfortunate then you've already lost. And this made me think of a few questions.
    Do you guys think it's a fair comparison to compare life to a game? And if so, who gets to decided the rules for life that make you sucsessful? What do you have to do to win?
    I've already said that I think life is a game, and society makes the rules but it's not until standards are already set that people realize that there is a certain way you need to live to get by. And just like the idea of the American Dream i dont think there is a certain way to "win", becuase I think it's all about luck.

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  4. Hey everyone it's xavier,
    For the beggining of the book i think that i have to agree with marguerite because it is very captivating in the beggining. What i found interesting though was that Salinger started the book of showing readers that he is a failure in school and ends up going to mr. Spencers house,"i turrned around and started running down the other side of the hill, toward spencer's house"(Salinger 5). Some readers would think that this type of occurring would happen in the middle of the story and not at the exact begginning. It seems typicallly more like an abyss type event in a hero's journey. Im not sure but i think that this is because he wants an even bigger more serios occuring will happen later that impacts the story at a more higher level. Lastly overall i am liking this book so far but i think it is going to need more in order to beat the brief wondorous life od Oscar Wao.
    -xavier

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  5. Thus far I have really enjoyed reading the novel. To be fully honest, one of the reasons I enjoy reading it is because Salinger includes a fairly simple narration; most likely, this is to demonstrate Holden’s teenager-like persona. What stood out to me the most about Holden during the first couple of chapters was simply his attitude towards life. Seeing he flunked out of school and didn’t seem to care too much about it, I somehow began to mindlessly judge him, forming an image of him as an unsophitaced individual who doesn’t want to apply himself. However, after reading more I realized that if I were to officially condemn Holden of being an unsophisticated individual, I think I’d be lying. In other words, I feel can’t characterize Holden’s personality in only one way, bringing me to Eliza’s point in regard to Holden having a dual personality.

    Taking into account that Holden has just flunked Pencey, had trouble in two other schools, and has a “pissed off” side, it’s hard to ignore the fact that Holden does indeed have characteristics that that show he’s troubled and doesn’t apply himself, especially when the reader gets a glimpse of his history essay. Nevertheless, to put it simply, Holden seemed like an overall decent guy to me. He has the potential to be smart in an academic sense, but is halted by his laziness. It was particularly the observations that he made about his teacher and the way he compared Ackley and Stradlater that made me realize how deep Holden is. Towards the end of the reading, I saw a whole other side of Holden, a gentle, honest side that’s revealed by him admitting the loss of “the two fights in [his] life” (46) and “sort of crying” (52) when as he left Pencey for good.

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  6. I guess I'll be the one here to play devil's advocate. Though I'm sure Holden will develop as a more dynamic character, right now he's giving off the impression that there's not much more to know about him than what we already saw. My first impression of him in this book was that it was like he was writing one of those cliché college essays in which the applicant tries way too hard to be “funny” and “real” by writing in the first person, in the hopes that readers will have some sort of unique insight into their head. He’s dramatic, saying things like “Grand. There’s a word I really hate . . . I could puke every time I hear it” (9). He’s self absorbed like many teens are, especially in their own heads (which is apparently what we’re seeing), mentioning over and over again his new red hat with its peak “around to the back” (26), just so. His vocabulary is limited and juvenile, with “goddamn” this and “goddamn” that. Overall, he's been frustrating me - I want to tell him to grow up, and start looking at bigger things in life than how annoying adults are and whether or not two people have "sexual intersourse". Despite all this, I'm enjoying reading the book, and I'm looking forward to seeing what makes it such a classic.

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  7. After reading the first section of this book, one thing stuck out to me: the italics. Salinger uses them unlike any other author. Most writers use italics sparingly to occasionally emphasize a phrase. But Salinger uses at least one per page and uses them on very common words. This makes the reading experience different from most books. Instead of ignoring the little words, Salinger forces you to take your time and slowly read the passage. For example, in this one sentence, "Just because they're(italics) crazy about themself, they think you're(italics) crazy about them, too, and that you're just dying to do them a favor" (36). Salinger emphasizes the pronouns of the sentence to show the subject of the sentence.

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  8. Temi, I definitely noticed the italics too, because they stood out to me as one of the best part of the "realistic" writing. It's getting a little TOO pounded into my head that Holden is this teenage boy who seems to truly believe that everything is "crumby", and talks about how everything "just kills [him]". These phrases come up time after time, not only in his interactions with others but in his personal narration. I like the italics because it shows not WHAT the characters say, but HOW they say it. I'm getting tired of "crumby" things and everything being so "goddamn corny" and "phony", but the italics are helping me think of Holden as a real human and not just the parody of a teenage boy he’s been seeming like. Some questions I'd like to pose (or just things to think about) are about the one actually compassionate thing I can find about Holden: how he lies about people to make others feel better. He calls this "chucking the old crap around" (56) or just "chucking it". Examples are when he lies to the mother of "the biggest bastard that ever went to Pencey" (54) about how humble and modest and amazing her son is because he know it makes her happy, and also when he dances and talks with the girls at the hotel bar, even though they're "ugly" and "corny" (72-74). My questions are: is it actually nice of him at all to make others feel better about themselves or the world through lies? Is he doing a good deed, or is this just the compulsive liar Holden we know? Is Holden lying for lying’s sake, or does he really care about making those he lies to feel a little better?

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  9. I’m no longer sure what my opinion of the book is. The tone, which I liked before, is starting to bug me. However, a suspicion that I’ve had from the beginning is growing stronger: Holden is not “right in the head,” as one might say. I’m no psychologist, but his way of thinking and acting is very unusual. In the 1950s, mental disorders were hardly mentioned, much less diagnosed and treated—although we do know from the first few pages that Holden is somewhere isolated because of some events he describes as “madman” (page 1 in my copy of the book). I’ll wait to see if this inkling of mine turns out to be true…

    As for the question of Holden’s motives in telling other people lies to make them feel better (which I first noticed last week with Ackley), I think he just does it to amuse himself. He is so clearly absorbed in his own thoughts that I think he sees others as not people with whom he could connect but rather pawns that he can manipulate by making them believe things that are not true. I really think he does it simply for his own enjoyment.

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  10. I'm so glad that Eliza mentioned this, I didn't bring up my prediction in my first entry, but I definitely think that Holden might not be entirely present up there."Then I started horsing around a little bit. Sometimes I horse around quite a lot, just to keep from getting bored. What I did was, i pulled the old peak of my hunting hat around to the front, then pulled it way down in front of my eyes. That way I couldn't see a goddamn thing. 'I think I'm going blind.'"(21). Holden does random weird things like that, and his humor was refreshing at the beginning of the book but sort of like Eliza it's getting old. However, I disagree with Elaine because I feel like I know nothing about Holden. I don't know if he has any siblings, or what his parents do, or why he's at boarding school in the first place. I'm still really interested though because Holden only has a few more days until he has to go home, and I can't wait to see how that pans out. When/if we meet his parents,I think we will she Holden in a different light and some of our questions will be answered.

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  11. It seems there’s been a lot of curiosity regarding Holden’s personality and mental state in the last few posts. It’s interesting to see how our interpretations of Holden have changed throughout the course of this book, first seeing his rougher, and perhaps and even more confident, side at Pencey and then noticing his fears and discomforts. Although Holden typically lies to whomever he encounters in the book, including Mr. Spencer and Ernie’s mother from the train, he, as a narrator to the reader, surprises me when it comes to describing himself. Already making it clear that he is wimp, a pacifist as he calls himself, who has never gotten into a fight, he begins to open up and tell us other things that might not be too easy to admit. For instance, during his stay at the hotel, Holden shows signs of sincere apprehension before meeting the prostitute, revealing “ [He’s] a virgin” who, when making out with a girl, took “an hour to just get her goddam brassére off” (Salinger 92-93). We also get a clear picture of how Holden feels after getting beat up by Maurice, as he explains how depressed he felt and that he stayed in a bath for an hour. Getting back to our curiosity about Holden’s personality and mental state, I think these events and behaviors are strong clues about who he is. Maybe he’s depressed or crazy; maybe he’s both. But I’m pretty sure that regardless of his psychological state, he is an individual who is very unconfident about himself and probably feels ashamed of his failures, especially with respect to his other siblings.

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  12. I think Holden’s relationships with members of his family show how he relates to different kinds of people (as archetypes for the relationships, one might say). His parents, about whom we know practically nothing (his mother would be angry if she found out that he’d been kicked out of Pencey, and that’s about it), represent forces of control: they don’t actually mean much to him, except that he often thwarts them to get what he wants. This is evident from the way he sneaks into his own home, and also disregards rules like the drinking age, simply because he wants to. D.B., his brother who lives in California and works as a prostitute, represents people he meets but does not talk about much: they’re there, he mentions them, and he may even manage to see through their outer presentations of character to underlying characteristics that they try to hide. One example of this is in Sally Hayes, who Holden thinks is smart at first “because she knew quite a lot about the theater and plays and literature and all that stuff” (137), but eventually comes to the conclusion that she is not as smart as she seems. His sister Phoebe represents the people he actually likes and wants to get along with (but doesn’t mind lying to), like the various cabbies he tries to befriend by asking them to get a drink with him. And I think that Allie, Holden’s dead brother, represents Holden himself: he mentions him in passing, with brutal honesty, but doesn’t actually know too much about what goes (or went, in Allie’s case) on in either of their heads.

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  13. People keep mentioning Holden's mental state and I think that his mental state is pretty clear. He's clearly lonely. He's continuously in need for a companion. This companion can be in the physical sense or mental sense. Regardless of if the companion is there in the physical sense or not, Holden makes an effort to never be alone. Salinger never explicitly states that Holden is lonely, but through his emotions and actions it’s quite clear. His string of events after leaving Pencey from wanting so badly to call someone at Penn Station, to having a prostitute in his hotel room suggests that there’s a void that he’s trying to fill. Even in chapter 11, on Holden’s “way out of the lobby, [he] got old Jane Gallagher on the brain again. [He] got her on, and [he] couldn’t take her off” (99). After leaving the party, which was full of people his mind subconsciously found another companion: Jane. She occupied his mind for the time being because Holden is simply a lonely boy. I just wonder what made him so lonely and was he always this way. I’m curious to see the road that’s ahead for him.

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  14. I agree that he's lonely Temi, and he says it himself quite a bit, but a problem with Holden is that he wants a friend but no one ever seems to be right for him. In this last chunk of reading, Phoebe seemed to be the only person he really enjoyed being with. In fact, his interactions with these people he apparently "wants" to see say a lot about the other topic that seems most prevalent here: his mental state. Sally is the best example here. When he first meets up with her, he says "I told her I loved her and all. . .I'm crazy. I swear to God I am" (125). Later, after he tells her she's a pain in the butt and he leaves her, he says again, "I swear to God I'm a madman" (134). His self-proclaimed "craziness" is supported by how drastically he yo-yoed in his feelings towards her. This seems to be a pattern with Holden, how he wants to be with someone but ends up feeling that they're "corny" or "phony". I stand by my belief that Holden is simply immature and naive - he wants something, but obviously isn't quite sure what that something is yet.

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  15. I honestly applaud Salinger for the way he makes the reader react to the story. Subconsciously, we all are trying to be Holden's therapist; trying to figure out what is wrong with him. Even though we may not agree on his mental issue, we do agree that there is something psychologically wrong with him. In chapter 16, where he is at the museum, he states that "The best thing... in that museum was that everything always stayed right where it was" (157). With that said, it gives me the sense that he is scared of changed. His thoughts keep drifting back to the past (something that isn't going to change) with thoughts about Jane and Phoebe. Also, to agree with Elaine’s point he calls many things “phony” and I think that he calls them that because they have ‘changed’ into something he doesn’t like. The change is what he doesn’t like because he scared of it. Do you think that he went through a traumatic experience as a child that made him so aware of his surroundings?

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  16. Temi you made the point I was going to make! I completely agree that Holden is afraid of change; your quote supports it well, as does the part where Holden says "That's one nice thing about carousels, they always play the same songs" (210). Holden rarely ever calls anything nice, so it makes sense with our points that carousels are good simply because they don't change. The book also ends on a similar note, about missing people. Though Holden didn't like those people at the time, because they're gone now he misses them.
    Overall, I don't regret reading this book but didn't like it at all. I'm glad we read it as a group,because I wouldn't have gotten through it by myself. Also, despite being so brief, the time we spent in class talking about it was really eye-opening: there were a lot of parts of the book I'd been too annoyed to look for, like some of the metaphors. Knowing about them doesn't make me like the book more, but at least now I feel satisfied in its justification as a "classic".

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  17. Over the last few chapters I’ve gotten a better sense of Holden in terms of his emotions and desires. One thing that we have all seem to agree on is that Holden is a lonely person who always craves to be with a companion. This is why we see him hanging out with Luce, going out on a date with Sally, and calling random people at times to see if he can see spend time with them. I think it’s also important to realize that when Holden gets drunk it’s not necessarily at random times but after he has stopped spending time with his friends, such as when Luce left after having a conversation at the Wicker bar. Clearly, we can claim that Holden’s loneliness, and perhaps depression, needs to be remedied by alcohol, as it reaches a pretty strong level sometimes.
    Another idea thing that I’ve noticed about Holden is that he appreciates the past and things that appear the way they are. A subtle example of this is whenever he is disgusted by anything phony. However, that may be due more to his close-minded personality. However, I think we can’t avoid the fact that he has an urge for things to remain constant. While walking in the Museum of Natural, he loves how “everything always stayed right where it was” and then says that people should “stick [things] in one of those big glass cases and just leave them alone” to keep things the way they are (p. 121- 122).

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  18. I completely agree with everything Elaine, Temi, and Peter have said in the last few posts. I was going to bring up how Holden searches for companionship, too—he so often pursues company, but everybody turns him down. In addition to further pushing Holden toward a breakdown (a “terrible, terrible fall,” as Mr. Antolini puts it on page 186—and can I just say, I was extremely disappointed that he skipped right over the breakdown in the narration; I was looking forward to reading about it), this complete alienation also shows the extreme loneliness of growing up. Throughout the story, Holden simultaneously pulls people towards him and pushes them away. He doesn’t quite know what he wants: intimacy and trust or the security that comes with being solitary and self-sufficient. This paradox is an important part of growing up. How can we balance the dependence on others that we’ve known since we were born and the independence we want to feel as young adults? Holden does this by completely denying to himself that he wants to trust people. The outcome of his story—his terrible, terrible fall—shows that that is not a good way to deal with the problem. However, the end note of the book is still hopeful: even after traumatic experiences, we can still grow and be wiser for it.

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  19. It was funny to me how a book so simple could be considered a classic. I personally consider this a children's book. I can't imagine adults taking their time to read this book. I'm not saying that it's a bad book, but I'm just saying that I don't think that it's a book that an adult will find interesting. However, if you're able to get past the superficial story, the book is quite complex. On the surface you get this almost childish plot, but Salinger uses this plot to get express important messages. This book is full with strong emotional feelings. In chapter 24, Holden finally breaks down. It seems that he’s not only lost in this world, but lost in himself too. Mr. Antolini tells Holden that, “This fall I think you’re riding for – it’s a special kind of fall, a horrible kind. The man falling isn’t permitted to feel of hear himself hit bottom (243).” The last sentence is such a powerful statement. It’s difficult to dissect and fully understand the complexity of Holden’s emotional feelings and for that reason I understand why this book is a classic.

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  20. Holden always has this thing where he sort of removes himself from situations and I think that a little bit he wants to be lonely because that’s how he’s been for so long, and like other people were mentioning he doesn’t like change. For example, if you notice the way he describes the National History Museum he is so happy because there is so much structure, he like knowing things. “I loved that damn museum. I remember you had to go through the Indian room to get to the auditorium. It was a long, long room, and you were only supposed to whisper (120)”. This also speaks to the fact that if you notice there are two different Holden’s telling you this story, there is the Holden that this actually happened to a year ago, then there is the Holden that is telling us this story which is a completely different person because the old Holden wouldn’t have even been able to tell us the truth, and take himself back to the pain and the loneliness of this time in his life.

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  21. Following up on what I was saying earlier, I think that its funny how Holden is always trying to tell a story but no one is ever willing to listen. But he keeps trying and trying which is why he is the way he is. The period of Holden’s life that is being described in the book is not a happy one, and I noticed that on page 79 when he is describing spending time with Jane he starts telling the story using “I”, then all of a sudden he starts using “you”. I think Salinger does this to show you how much Holden is detached from that, because using “you” is describing a really happy time, “You never even worried with Jane, whether your hand was sweaty or not. All you knew was, you were happy. You really were (79)”. He has to use “you” to show you that he is not that person, he is not happy at all.

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  22. Hey guys its xavier,
    So this is my post for the second assigned reading. At this point in the book we as readers are starting to get deeper into the head of Holden. i think that in the part in the hotel where Holden sees the man and woman in a room near by spitting at each other and Holden comments by saying "the trouble was, that kind of junk is sort of fascinating to watch"(Salinger 62). When i read this the first thing that came to my mind was what was wrong with kid to say that he finds people spitting at each other fascinating? Maybe its just me and that maybe this is sort of biased in my perspective but even though its implied that he isnt well in the head, I never knew it was to such of an extent. Other than that i think that i am looking forward to continue reading and finding out where Holden is going to end up. One thought question that i have had in my head is what exactly is the significance of Holden asking people about the duck in the park? Why does he always ask and why does he persist to find out.

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  23. Hey guys its xavier again,
    This is my post for the third assigned reading. Now as the story progresses for me, i am starting to see that Holden is starting to act less "crazy" as some might say in my opinion. He asks this girl to go on a date with him and he tries to be nice to her by buying her tickets and taking her places like an archetypal boy on a date would, which i think that the author expresses explicitly in this book through Holden. He exposes the archetype of what he should be as a male in his society. A male who reaches out to obtain woman and have sexual relations with them, and Holden does not like this that he should be doing certain things like having sex and he is not that way because though he may be a little crazy he is a very innocent and sweet kid like the way he was with the nuns, "After they left, i started getting sorry that i'd only given them ten bucks for their collections"(Salinger 113). Now this is a good gateway to my thought question of this particular reading of, what is the author trying to say of the male archetypes in society and how it pressures especially young males to be "good with the ladies".

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  24. Hey guys i no im annoying but its xavier again,
    This post is for the fourth assigned reading. So now i think that one part that really stood out to me was that he shows these strong emotions for Allie and repetatively talks about how she died and how he liked the way that she was. He talks alot in a very athiast perspective "and his soul's in heaven and all that crap"(Salinger 156). He shows alot of personalities through out the book like the atheism and even homophobia with his conversations with Luce. He is a very curious boy and i think that it can really work to his advantages sometimes and i think that the Salinger does this to reinforce my prior argument of Holden being more like an innocent kid because children are usually the ones that notice little details and are very curious about the world and there surroundings. In my opinion the author may be trying to break the archetype of a male tennager and how they should be rather than being like his character Holden. Now my thought question for this section is that what exxactly is the significance of Holden's liking of the dead Allie. Why is Allie so important that Salinger makes Holden repeat his fellings about Allie through out the book.

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  25. After finishing the whole book, I’m tempted to address what I mentioned in the first post about Holden halving a dual-personality and/ or being depressed. Since I now have a holistic view of what has happened, I want to argue that Holden didn’t have a dual personality or was psycho; I think he was simply troubled and depressed due to being overwhelmed. It’s definitely true that Holden had extreme desires towards the end of the book, as he makes it clear that he was going to move west to “get a job at a filling station” and “build … a cabin” in the woods where he would pretend he was a deaf-mute for the rest of his life so no one would talk to him (Salinger 198-199). Although we may want to accuse Holden of being crazy, I want to defend him by saying he simply doesn’t fit in. Given he has been kicked out of several schools and sees himself as an underachiever compared to the rest of his family members, he feels that he doesn’t belong with the, and share their aspirations. Furthermore, I want to give Holden credit for being so observant of not only noticing that his friends are phony, but also people that have high reputations such as lawyers. As a side note, I personally saw Holden sharing some characteristics with Nick Carraway since he too wanted to move west after realizing that the fame in the East was very superficial. However, Holden ultimately decides to stay, and although his mind ventured so far out during the course of the book, he comes back to his own status-quo where he starts school next fall.

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